TheByte

The Diva

Thank you, Choleric!

As a matter of fact, everyone else who has voiced their opinion is not from the states!
But it's fashionable and easy to bash and disapprove Bush that it's just simply done.

Do take in mind that when you do that in front or Americans, it's the equivalent of bashing part of the family.
You get the idea; we might personally not completely agree with them, but when push comes to shove ... you even back your rotten cousin up!

I would personally love to have a glass of wine ( or dinner or coffee) with any states-person who is not a dictator to their people.
They have extremely complicated jobs and just keeping sane is admirable.


BTW, Bruce you forgot to mention the greatest resource we American take from Canada: MAPLE SYRUP

MikeJ

I have to say that I'm extremely baffled by this statement. The U.S. president is a major player in international politics and therefore subject to international criticism. What sort of criticism this is depends on the president himself... Bill Clinton was an internationally respected politician, mind you (until the scandal anyway).

The Diva

What part of my statement baffles you Mike?

BTW I did not approve of Clinton's politics either ( even before the Monica incident).

MikeJ

The part in bold - comparing Bush to a member of your family.

The Diva

I see; OK maybe this helps.

My country is where I live, my land, my motherland, my pride.

The inhabitants are part of a collective family one way or another. When there is a natural disaster we all pitch in,
when we are called to be inconvenienced at domestic airports because of terrorists, we comply sometimes grudgingly, but we do.

Our President is not only one of the inhabitants but the Commander in Chief! The Big Kahuna , The MAN!
This is regardless of policies, actions, words, etc .

It might seem I am overreacting, but having lived abroad and branded as a stupid, ignorant,
unsophisticated and ungraceful American ( never mind I hold a degree Physics and have a Masters in Fine Arts) left its mark.
I also kindly received house-guests from other countries who did nothing more than bash President Bush
DURING THEIR WHOLE STAY, morning, evening and night, I can't really stay quiet anymore.

You see, if someone bashes my president, they unintentionally ( or not) bash my land,
and because I have this sense of pride for my country , as many Americans have, it touches me.

So is Bush the best? Certainly not. Is he the worst and worth of the title of most unpopular on record?
I doubt it. But the title sells worldwide and CNN needs the money and the ratings.

I believe NIXON was the most unpopular in modern history;
if you guys recall, Dick was booted out of the office and coined the phrase " I am not a Crook".

Oh and just for the record: no I'm not a Bush lover, but I'm not a Bush hater.
He is the one in the Oval Office at the moment who inherited a mess;
and the next president will have the same predicament.

Harry Plopper

^

Don't you think you are overreacting?

There are good, and there are bad presidents (in the free western world). And in the free western world there is FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!! And like good presidents are objects of praise, bad presidents are objects of criticism. Bush is no exception.

Do you think that for the sake of patriotism & politeness people should not express their opinions?

Isn't that a censorship???!!!!


****

My dear CD, I'm deeply shocked when somebody in the free western world feels offended by the criticism of their authorities / country. Why? Because my country is located on the edge of the Balkans & has been under communist regime for 45 years, and I know how it fells when freedom of speech is suppressed, and people are arrested due "verbal delicti" (read: criticism of authorities, or the system). Not that's the case in USA - but the reaction of certain too "proud" people (proud of the country, religion, nation, land, symbols, authorities etc) gives me the same (bitter) sensation. Since there is very thin line between being a "healthy supporter", and being an oversensitive supporter (or even fanatic).
And too proud people who felt offended too quickly started a very bloody war in the Balkans (which - thank god - avoided my country), or - in the previous regime - were the snitches & reporting the "problematic" citizens who criticized the country, authorities, or the system.

****

USA still are world's superpower & the global cop. Not to mention US economy is still THE factor for the global economy. Therefore USA has a HUGE responsibility to stay sane & rational. Not the first time of such scenario but this one is one of the worst.

Yes, it's rude of your guests who are forcing your to listen all the bashing in your house at your own table. I guess you have some not really diplomatic friends.

I also understand it hurts when you are labeled as "stupid American" - since I also hate such generalizations. Americans are - in average - not more or less stupid than any other nation in average. There's lot of stupid Germans, Japanese, Italians, French, Slovenes as well. I guess that has something to do with the auto exposure USA does - via its media (incl internet), and the entertainment business. Exposing sensational & stupid things. Due that the representation of Americans is skewed a lot. Gosh! Nation with best scientists & best universities, institutes & laboratories is hardly stupid.


****

Bush as a president is not enough sensitive (to the current US & global needs). I don't know what the cause is - either he is not smart enough, or he's just a marionette of special interests. I don't know. I can only tell what media deliver to me.

But ...
I disaggree with you on the line "Bush inherited the mess". Who starts the war in Iraq? Who ignored the global warming issue? Who starts to lead unilateral diplomacy? Bush did.

Yes, I know "he was forced to do it since the terrorism". But I remember it very vividly before 9/11 Bush & the administration were obsessed with the "nuclear rocket shield" & "huge threat from North Korea". No word on Al Quaeda, or Muslim extremism, Iraq, Afghanistan or Iran. Only Israeli - Palestinian question was active. Saddam Hussein and his imaginary WoMD were also not a big issue at that time.

To remember you: Al Quaeda was already a serious threat (Embassy bombing in Kenya / Somalia; attack on USS Cole) ... But Bush, Cheney, Condi, Rumsfeld & Powel thought N. Korea was a bigger threat. Although CIA & other security advisers prepared numerous briefs on Al Quaeda. That's the fact. I only don't know what was the motivation behind ignoring that issue.

Not to start about economical policies of Bush's administration ...


****

Yes, Nixon was a bad president. But his bad presidency mostly affected only the USA. While GWB's presidency affected the whole Globe. And not in a good way. That's why GWB (and USA who he represents) are heavily criticized so much.

In current times when most of the world is "globalized" & countries (mostly their economies) are very much co-dependent on each other, its dangerous to have incompetent president in the White House.

Americans are not aware (nor are eg. the Russians) what a responsibility they have when electing a president. So, choosing a president by criteria such as "best buddy to have a beer / barbecue with" (= by likability) is very irresponsible these days.

Its very dangerous (not only in USA) elections became a likability contest ... Which has a result in incompetent presidents / prime ministers who can do a lot of damage in internal & foreign affairs.

In this regards many nations are getting "stupid & even more stupid" ... And that's very dangerous.


****

Dear CD, take no offense & have a nice day.

MikeJ

Thank you for your answer, Diva.


This I get, it sounds very familiar to me...

...whereas this part sounds really strange. I would understand it if your nation was facing a major crisis or something (as was the case with 9/11).

Ah, the world of cultural differences. Now I'm not going to pretend to know what sort of behaviour you faced, but in my personal experience many such cases result from misunderstanding. I know an American woman who spent a year here and we often discussed the differences in what constitutes normal social interaction in our two cultures and the way she felt she had been treated by us Finns. She described several incidents where she said she could have been quite offended by someone's behaviour, where to me it seemed like the other person was trying to avoid confrontation or embarrassment. And it's not like I haven't been left confused by people's reaction to things I've done while abroad, either. That said, the preconception of the 'stupid American' is very well alive throughout the world, and is at least partly undeserved.


This I would see as bad behaviour; there's two things I would not discuss when I'm a guest in someone's home (unless brought up by the hosts) and they are religion and politics.

This is where we differ. I have a sense of pride for my country as well, but it doesn't mean I'm not willing to accept (harsh) criticism towards our president, foreign policy or even internal affairs - given that there is some grounds to it.

The Diva

I don't think we differ that much. I'm sure you will listen when foreigners give their opinions on your leader ,
but you are also entitled to a rebuttal ,and that exactly what I did.
You live in your country and therefore have a better picture that people abroad.
You might see, live, deal with many things others are not aware exist.



Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Rob

LOL, seriously though, even though I think his administration has made some very bad decisions, as a person, Bush is not an unlikeable man. I like Sarkozy too -- much more likable than his pompous predecessor (Jacques Chirac).

The Diva

No

None taken, and thanks ;I'm having a wonderful day. It's sunny, 86 F (30 celsius for our metric friends) and the pool is great.